Jan Cvitkovič always has a story up his sleeve – we are interested in the one describing how the film Gravehopping was born?

»Well, actually there is no big story behind it. I was telling Miki (a film director Janez Burger) about people who write and give speeches at funerals and he said that this was a good idea for a film. After that I decided to shoot a comedy. Well, the film we have made is not exactly a comedy.«

How did other characters join the main character - the man who gives speeches at funerals?

»The phenomenon of people writing and giving speeches at funerals is about the only element of this film that is taken from real life. Unlike in Bread and Milk and other films, this time none of my characters are based on real people. Everything – the story, the characters – is made up.«

When you were writing the script, did you know which way you were heading, what was going to happen…or did you keep writing and writing…?

»I kept writing. The script was taking shape while I changed several different emotional states, several different places, continents even. I was writing until something that happened in my head hit me. Such moments felt right and I stuck to that idea. My idea was not to think about the way the characters would influence each other but to get as deep as possible into each and every one of them. I tried to depict each of them in several different emotional states, as I believe it is only then that a character really becomes alive. I did not wish to create a story according to the traditional, Aristotelian structure where one event is the consequence of the previous one and the reason for the following one. What I wanted to achieve was each and every scene to be perceived as a whole, complete in itself. I wanted to depict and make a film out of impressions of life of different people, things and nature as well.«

Did the inspiration for the script come from a certain feeling, or from something you have read…?

»Not at all. I tried to write intuitively without using my reason too much. Every time I felt I began building a kind of structure or characters with the sole purpose to tell something I stopped. I threw that part out. I tried to write a script, which was not influenced by the outside world. I think I was quite successful in doing so, especially in the second part of the film, which basically has a very traditional beginning. It starts off as a comedy and then, however, begins to change. The way I, and even more importantly my perception of life, changed from the day I started to think about the script to the day we finished shooting.«

Can you tell us what the greatest change in you was?

»While makig this film I began to understand the essence of film, the essence of any work of art, actually. I had an unusual experience, which some people refer to as a mythical experience. According to a psychologist Abraham Maslow, who wrote about this phenomenon, however, it is called a »peak experience«. What basically happens is that in a certain moment one feels this great enlightenment, everything becomes crystal clear and this experience is physical as well as emotional. This profound experience and the overwhelming power one feels change one's perspective to a great extent. One begins to perceive life in a different way, completely new things become the focus of one’s attention. One becomes aware of the important and unimportant things and thus sets his or her priorities. Well, perhaps talking about the essence that I discovered is a bit too much. What I hope is that you will be able to spot it in the film yourselves.
This experience was already slightly visible at the end of Bread and Milk, however, it was not so intense and physical yet. I knew exactly what I wanted, though, and I followed my idea.«

You are quoting Salinger in the prologue: »«?

»Yes, this paragraph is the most important piece of writing I have ever come across while reading literature and it also holds the key to understanding the essence of this film.«

There are many 'creatures’ in this paragraph who come from the so-called other world, the world beyond: a child, an old man, above all a ‘crazy woman’ Ida and others…

»I never thought about any of them as a concept. What I like and what is good about these characters is that they remained from beginning to end almost too pure (on the inside) for the world they live in. That is the reason why they come across as if they were from the world beyond and actually this is also why they are a kind of a link between the world and God – to express myself poetically.«

Can you tell us a little bit more about how you created a deaf and mute character Ida, who is played by Sonja Savić?

»Sonja and I have a very special relationship, which is different from my relationships with other actors, simply because she is not like any other people I know. Although she is incredibly intelligent and well-educated woman, she has in some way managed to break away from the common, rational perception of the world around us. Instead, she perceives it intuitively. Why her perception has changed is a question she herself would answer the best. The fact is, however, that other actors as well as the whole crew feel her different perception and get infected with it. This was exactly what I was looking for in this film and that is why Ida plays the key role in Gravehopping. On the other hand, I have to admit that it is difficult to work like this and that a relationship that I have with Sonja needs much more attention than others. Ten times more. Consequently, she is the only person I come into serious conflicts with during the shooting. We have a silent agreement about these conflicts. We are both well aware they are inevitable and at the same time we know they will also bear moments of exceptional creativity and harmony between us. We both know that our ups and downs are in no way jeopardizing the shooting, even though it may look otherwise for an outsider.«

There are much more actors involved in Gravehopping than in your feature film debut Bread and Milk, which does not make it any less outstanding than the latter. How did you work with the actors?

»Nataša Burger and myself organised and lead thorough preparations. We started in Ljubljana, then we moved to the Karst region where we shot the film, so the actors could get used to the environment and the atmosphere. Our preparations were only slightly based on the screenplay. The main idea was that the actors spend some time together, start communicating, get comfortable being around each other, and on their own. The results of these kinds of preparations are really good because one can physically feel the exact moment when individual actors become ready to play their roles in the film. They simply open up, they burst like balloons. We had these preparations until everyone opened up like that and then we were all ready to start shooting.«

Your have a reputation for being a stubborn director. To get it right you are prepared to retake the scene even twenty-six times…

»Things like that do not happen very often. Sometimes two attempts are enough. While shooting a film, a director subconsciously knows when something is right and when it is not. A person can move the same, speak the same, make the same gestures, however, nothing happens…If it does not happen after the twentieth time, I simply continue until it does.«

Despite your determination and a clear vision how it must be, improvisation is not utterly excluded from the film, is it?

»It happened that we shot the scenes, which we not planned. For example, the opening scene in the swimming pool, the one with Ida on the meadow in which the camera makes a full-circle turn. I thought of this scene when I had to go to the toilet while editing and we shot it afterwards. It is really interesting how exactly these unplanned scenes, the scenes none of us understood exactly why we are shooting them, turned out to be the most important ones in the whole film.«

The most powerful scenes in the film are those in which nature plays the leading role: the sun, meadows, tress, a vineyard…

»Indeed, there is something in these scenes. I felt it, too. This feeling, if one can perceive it, is for me the presence of God or collective consciousness. This feeling is precisely what I would like to achieve when I am making a film. Nothing else seems sensible to me.«

How and how much did you think about the scenography? It seems that there are many parallel worlds existing in your film and each is in a different colour…

»I liked the idea of each person in a film living in his or her own shell. After some time they eventually left them and met each other and something completely new evolved from that. I only started thinking about scenography consciously during the preparations and not so much during writing the script. When we finally started to discuss the colours with the scenographers, I could not find any other way to explain what I wanted but to go through different classical paintings together. I focused particularly on Edgar Degas, because I wanted the interior to reflect his colours. What the exterior was concerned my only wish was golden light, which is again very special and specific.«

Once friend of mine who is a film director was sitting in this golden light of a late summer afternoon and told he me that it is impossible to bring this kind of light on film.

»If your wish is powerful enough and the director, who understands your wish, good enough then anything is possible. I must admit, though, that the natural conditions have to work for you as well.«

What is your attitude towards words – in the film?

»I do not use words to say what is important for the story of for the film, but I use them to build a scene. My characters usually say things that are not 'important', they do not really reveal or convey anything. Most importantly, my characters do not explain anything, which is what really bothers me about other films. One can tell much more by using words that are not reasonably connected with the scene at all. This way one can focus on the atmosphere and the attitude of the speaker to world he or she lives in without discussing it aloud.«

And how do you feel about words when writing short stories or poetry?

» I have never thought about it. I do not know.«

I am asking this (also) because at the end of the film Pero, who frequently uses the speeches at funerals as means to express self-pity, fury and boredom, remains speechless…

»I planned to write that speech but I could not and I simply left it as it was.«

What is the point of sadistic love scene in the film? It was the only scene I could live without. Perhaps, this is because I think that lately film producers, as well as writers use this form of unacceptable behaviour to depict loneliness and alienation people suffer from…

»I have no rational explanation for that either. I just wrote it. The fact is that for me this not an unacceptable form of behaviour or an act of despair. I see this differently.«

How?

»It fascinates me.«

Why?

»I cannot explain. It is good to see people in extreme situations or do extreme things. Most of them carry these extremes in themselves, but never find a way to express them. I am interested and fascinated by those people who do. Some may do it only in their imagination while lying in bed with their eyes closed, whereas some do it in reality.
What I disagree most about is people moralizing about whether this is right or wrong. For me it is completely right. It is like committing a crime, which I certainly do not approve of, but it is completely normal that it happens.«

While watching the scene where Ida gets nailed to a table and tortured, I started wondering whether you have ever read the Bible?

»I tried but I could not. The scene you are talking about was not meant to have a Biblical connotation. It was not meat to exist at all. It just appeared to me. These are very powerful images, which can probably be found in everyone's subconscious. Everything that comes out of you had to be taken in at some time. After the screening in Cannes a woman came over to me and asked me if I had ever been to a psychoanalist. I took that as a peculiar but unique compliment.«

What do you think about death?

»Actually, I am doing everything I can now to be able to die a calm and a happy, satisfied man. As a child I did not understand death and was very afraid if it. This fear is less strong now, however, it does not mean that it disappeared and that I am not afraid at all. I am pretty scared if someone puts a knife on my throat or a gun against my head. This fear is completely normal, however, it is a special kind of fear, which I could talk about for hours.
Death and life are a part of everything. It takes a mythical experience to figure out that the Earth, the people, the universe are all one and the same thing… Once realising that, one does not have problems separating life from death. They walk had in hand. They belong together.«

Bread and Milk is an episode from a life you have observed. Gravehopping is a story you have created yourself. What is the difference?

»Only by searching for an inspiration deep in yourself and creating from the inside, one can find his or her own essence. What is really fascinating is the fact that when I am writing, shooting a film or doing something else I am coming to realise that what is inside me is so much different than what I am to the outside world. As much as this is fascinating it is also difficult to live with. The more you create your own world, the more difficult it is to live in the real one. Perhaps one day I will manage to reunite these two worlds inside me. The moment of death would probably be ideal for that. What I do not know exactly is, if I am capable of doing that and more importantly if I have the will to do it. Or even better, if I get the opportunity to do it.«

Is Gravehopping a very intimate film?

»By intimate, do you mean did I expose 'my' intimacy? I do not know if this is only 'my' intimacy. The film wants to tell a story about common intimacy. The only thing I really want from this film is that at least some of the people who see it will join this intimacy and experience it as if it was their own.
The idea of Gravehopping is not to tell, to explain, to disapprove or approve of anything. Therefore, as a person watching the film, you do not have the role of a critic, you are just there watching it. The things exist, are complete in themselves. I wish that people would feel the essence of living, which does not need to be categorised, judged or evaluated – one can, however, try to dive into it.«

What are Jan Cvitkovič’s plans for the future?

»This moment I do not have many plans. I survived quite a destructive phase and am quite empty inside. Well, I do write some poetry from time to time.«

Nika Bohinc